Irish nationalism is wrong. =================

Standard

unhistorical not evil. #

Ireland in 1170s

nationalism ivented 1790s

halcyom age is gaelic era

gaelic revivial. hark back to middle ages like rest of Europe. king Arthur.

noorwegian blood

separatists attempted to unite us with spain, france and germany

#foreign help for IRA. USA and Libya unholy alliance

 

euro nationalism

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Irish nationalism is not immoral. It is merely unhistorical.

Most of what you have read about Ireland’s past is false. Look into the annals. You will discover that when English soldiers first came to Ireland we were not fully independent, united, Irish speaking or Catholic. Nor is Ireland our original language.

Irish nationalism emerged in an identifiable form in the 1790s. It was then led by upper middle class Protestant intellectuals who wanted to copy the French Revolution. The anarchy, internecine fighting and mass executions of the French Revolution might have given them payse for thought. Nonetheless the wish to found an Irish Republic with religious equality was not a totally bad idea. The legal discrimination against the Catholic majority at the time made the Kingdom of Ireland a place badly in need of reform.

In the late 19th century Irish nationalism became Gaelic nationalism. Arlene Foster correctly identified it as such in 2005. Gaelic nationalism is about trying to have our culture preserved in aspic from the 8th century AD. A few centuries when the Gaels dominated are supposed to be the golden age. Like most tales of a gilded age it is largely false. We were deeply divided and almost incessantly at war against each other.  We had no royal dynasty.  Different dynasties tussled for the high kingship every few years. This at least meant a capable ruler came out on top which did not always happen under primogeniture.

Ancient Britons fled to Ireland in the 4th century AD so we are more British than the people of Great Britain. Britannia was a polity at the time. This cannot be compared to British people being German due to Angles and Saxons coming from modern Germany at that time. There was no concept of Germany back then.

All nations are created at some point as Anderson wrote in Imagined Communities. In Ireland there has been an erasure of our Welsh, Scots and English stock.

Gaelic nationalism’s twin engines were the Gaelic League and the Gaelic Athletic. These atavistic organisations harked back to the 12th century. That was before English and Welsh soldiers arrived in Ireland at the invitation of the King of Leinster.

Gaelic nationalism considered Gaelige to be the language of Ireland. Irish is not the original language of Ireland. There was a prior Celtic language before Irish. That Celtic language has been lost and was never written. So much for lingucide. Gaelic nationalists often accused the English of killing the Irish tongue. In fact the Gaels killed the previous Celtic tongue. Does that make Gaels bad?

Gaelic nationalists pretended that everyone in Ireland was  a Gael. There were several waves of immigration and invasion into Ireland before the 12 the century. Ancient Britons fled to Ireland in the 4th century AD. In that sense the people of Ireland are the true owners of Great Britain. The Britons who came to Ireland at the time were running away from the Angles, Saxons and Jutes who attacked Britannia.

The Gaels dominated Ireland for only six centuries but it gives them eternal mastery. 850 years of more recent connection to Wales and England is held to confer no legitimacy at all. Such is the illogic and vindictiveness of the closed minded nationalist.

Therefore many changes had occurred prior to the arrival of Strongbow and King Henry II of England in 1169.  All these changes before the 12 th century were accepted. Everything since 1169 was an abomination according to Gaelic separatists.

Gaelic nationalists stressed Irish unity. They overlooked the historical truth. In 1169 Ireland was divided into several kingdoms that were often at war against each other. There was a high king at Tara. But he had little authority. There was no regal dynasty. The country lapsed into fratricidal war every so often when a king died. These kingly elections were fractious affairs and often bloody ones.

There were Danes in Ireland in 1169 and that had been in Ireland for 300 years. They controlled Dublin. Brian Boru had bested the Danes at the Battle of Clontarf in 1014. Separatists ignored that this was a very temporary victory. The Danes soon returned.

Irish kings often enlisted Danish aid against each other.

It is the entitlement of any person to believe himself to belong to a distinct nation whether or not this opinion is borne out by historical evidence. Everyone has the right to seek independence for anything they consider to be a nation. That is not to say that every group that calls itself is a nation is one or indeed should be granted independence even if all the members of the same wish for independence.

After 1169 we had many English and Welsh immigrants coming. We also had Scots coming. The Scots were an Irish tribe originally. There was a kingdom that spanned the North Channel.

The Anglo-Normans and the Cambro-Normans who came to Ireland in the 12th century were soon gaelicised. The later Statues of Kilkenny were to forbid this but were soon ineffectual. Even that piece of legislation recognised that in most of Ireland – the Irishry – we were permitted our tongue culture. This law noted that the English and Welsh in Ireland had been absorbed into the native Irish. Therefore those of us who think we are native Irish are not entirely by any means. We are of Welsh, English and Norman stock.

Many Irishmen had gone to dwell in Great Britain. All sorts of people came to Ireland after 1160 such as Frenchmen, Germans, Dutch and so on.

How Gaelic are the Irish really? If we could isolate the Gaelic genes we would srely find that we are only a small fraction Gaelic. The Gales dominated Ireland for only a few centuries until the 9th century. There have been countless cultural memes that we adopted from all the other migrants who arrived in Eire.

In 1600 Sir John Davies wrote that if the people of Ireland were numbered by poll it would be found that few of us were autochthonous Irish.

Gaelic nationalism seeks to suppress all the non Gaelic heritage of Ireland.

The GAA banned people in it from playing garrison sports i.e. anything except for hurling or Gaelic football. At their social functions they had only Irish dancing and music. This is xenophobia.

There is nothing bad about playing Gaelic games. Learning a new language is laudable. Demonising another language – the language of the majority is contemptible.

Separatists in Ireland often accuse the English of invading us in the 12th century. They never accuse the Welsh who were involved too. That is historically illiterate. Moreover, the upper class in England and Wales are largely French at the time. Strongbow was invited in by an Irish king – Dermot MacMurrough. There was a high king Rory O’Connor whom MacMurrough clashed with. Was it wrong for a sub sovereign entity to enlist foreign military aid? Separatists should not think so.

Separatists wanted Ireland to be annexed by other countries. They have engineered several invasions of Ireland. They brought Spanish troops to Ireland in the 1590s.  King Philip II of Spain styled himself King of Ireland due to his marriage to our late queen Mary Tudor. They brought French soldiers to Ireland in the 1790s. They wanted French troops to invade in the late 19th century but it never happened. Some ex soldiers from the US came to Ireland to cause a conflict in 1860s. Admittedly not at the behest of Washington. They wanted German soldiers to attack us in 1916 and in 1940. The Kaiser spoke of ”taking the little place” and mused that he would make his youngest son the King of Ireland. In the 1920s some American ex soldiers were there again causing conflict. Some would have bee happy for the Soviets to invade. A few American ex soldiers joined the Irish republican cause in the 70s.  Separatists have engineered invasions and attempted to engineer invasions several times as adumbrated hereinbefore.

The Spanish troops were not wanted in Ireland in the 1580s. They were massacred at Smerwick. That is on the west coast – the most Catholic and Hibernophone region. There were Pontifical troops too. The Pope send his army and navy in 1588 and they were killed by us.

Had France conquered us we would have been a satellite of France. It might have been ana advance. Bear in mid  France was in conflict with the Catholic Church. Napoleon in time would have placed a sibling on our throne. Independence was not on the cards.

 

 

 

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3 responses »

  1. I’m no expert on the topic, but I think it’s more apt to say it was accelerated by the 1790s, as there is evidence to suggest it sprung from the concept of ‘Patria’ that came out of the renaissance.
    Where do you see the fundamental ahistoric factor that makes Irish Nationalism ‘wrong’ as you put it- the fact it stemmed from an elite protestant myth-history, or the fact that it was a copycat of the French revolution? In either case, you could apply the same logic to the many nationalisms that accelerate in the 19th century and argue they are ‘wrong,’ as they too are very often elite-dominated or French-revolution-inspired.

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